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NMDC HAS A MEETING WITH AKC
Place: AKC Administrative Office
Time: February 11, 2004 11:00am
Executive Board Room
260 Madison Avenue
NYC
Attending:
AKC: Dennis Sprung, President, and CEOJames Crowley, Executive Secretary
Michael Liosis, Director of Club Relations
NMDC: Emma Jean Stephenson, President
Daryl Turner, 1st Vice President
Dianne Graham, 2nd Vice President
Carol Luetkens, Laura Abbott, and Kim Ragsdale, members
The meeting began with Daryl Turner passing out folders
that included
correspondence and the history of the separation issue.
Emma Jean introduced the members of NMDC in attendance.
Daryl reviewed the history section.
History of the Miniature and the Separation Issue:
1934 The first class for Miniature Dachshunds in the United
States.
The class combined coat varieties and sexes and was offered at the
Dachshund Club of America Specialty in that year. The only requirement was
that the dog weighed less than 9 pounds.
1935 AKC divided the open classes adding “12 months of age and older” to the Miniature class.
1952 Following discussions with AKC on the desire to separate the Miniature Dachshund as a variety, AKC sent a letter to DCA stating that it didn’t appear good for the breed and that “when these dogs start defeating Standard dogs in the winners class, when Miniatures bred to Miniatures quite regularly produce Miniatures which can do that, then the question of defining a Miniature will no longer be the problem it is today.” (John C. Neff)
1966 The Dachshund Club of America polled its membership and on separate variety status for Miniature and Standard Dachshunds. This poll indicated that separate variety status was wanted, but the DCA received no support from AKC on the subject.
1967 AKC gave approval to DCA to divide the Open Miniature classes at its specialty show into Red and Black and Tan and any color except Red.
1971 Weight changed to ten pounds for Miniatures.
1972 A letter from Sidney Sims (DCA president) to AKC strongly urging the AKC to give separate variety status to Miniature Dachshunds.
1973 Sidney Sims and John Cook of DCA met with Mr. John Lafore, Jr. of the AKC to discuss the Miniature Separation. The AKC set up guidelines, the DCA was asked to write a breed standard for the Miniature Dachshund. “The Dachshund is bred in two sizes, Standard and Miniature, and each comes in three coat varieties, Smooth, Longhair, and Wirehair. All six varieties should conform to the characteristics already specified. All Standard size Dachshunds should ideally weigh between 16 and 30 pounds. All Miniature size Dachshunds must weigh under 10 pounds.” The weight stipulation on the Standard Dachshund was “suggested” by the AKC.
1974 The DCA membership approved the proposed breed standard change by a vote of 439 to 137. Having the required 2/3 majority, the DCA submitted the breed standard changes to the AKC for approval.
1975 The AKC denied approval of breed standard changes because the specifications of an ideal weight for Standards and mandatory weight for Miniatures would create a no-mans land for the Dachshunds weighing between 10 pounds and 16 pounds.
1981 The DCA announced the result of a poll taken concerning the separation issue:
1) The majority of people responding were active breeders and exhibitors.
2) The majority opposed sending only one Dachshund to the Group.
3) The majority favored keeping the Variety system (as opposed to Breeds).
4) The majority favored keeping all Dachshunds in the same Group.
5) The majority favored more separation of Miniature and Standard.
1985 AKC gave permission for separate Miniature and Standard classes at the DCA annual Specialty show from 12-18 month class and above, up to winners.
1992 Weight limit raised Open Miniature Dachshunds to 11 pounds. Attempt to remove the “at 12 months of age or older.” Did not attain the 2/3 majority needed.
1999 All AKC licensed judges are polled as to their feeling concerning the separation of Miniature and Standard Dachshunds. Vast majority (over 70%) supported separation.
2000 Attempted to revise the breed standard to 6 varieties. AKC sent letters stating that such requests need to be made to the board of AKC prior to revising the standard. Standard revision failed the membership vote 497 to 559.
Most interesting was the section concerning the 1973 attempt headed by John Cook and Sid Simms to expand the breed to six varieties. Mr. Sprung asked if AKC had documentation of that event. Mr. Crowley stated that he was personally involved in that event. The membership had approved expanding the breed to six varieties and the AKC board returned it to DCA to correct the language concerning Miniatures’ absolute weight and Standards’ ideal weight. The section concerning the polling of the judges was also of much interest to AKC. We did not have the actual numbers with us, only to state that the majority (better than 70%) of the judges responding to the survey were supportive of the breed expansion.
The section of history dealing with the year 2000 attempt to expand the breed was also discussed in some detail. It was explained that there is no provision in the DCA by-laws to bring the issue to the membership except through the Standard revision. And further, even with the letters from AKO stating that the action was wrong, and the DCA board urging a no vote, we still got nearly 50 percent support from the membership.
We explained that dachshunds were separate breeds everywhere else in the world. Mr. Liosis said, you mean Canada. Dianne said no.. .we mean everywhere else in the world. FCI has 9 breeds with their own group, but all of Europe and Asia, South America, Africa, Australia, etc. have at least six separate breeds.
The separate breed issue was then discussed.
Mr. Crowley asked if breeding between standards and miniatures was still happening on a regular basis.
Daryl explained that it was not, and that the miniature people have been putting ML, MS, and MW after their dogs’ names thus distinguishing them from the standards. He stated that there are well over a thousand dogs that have at least 3 generations of strict Miniature-to-Miniature breeding. The gene pool is now large enough to support the Miniature dachshund without breeding between the two sizes. Occasionally, a standard breeder will have a very small bitch in their litter and decide to breed her to a Miniature in an attempt to breed down in size. Without separate breed designation, that sort of thing cannot be prevented.
Mr. Crowley then went into some detail discussing the need to open the ‘Stud Book” to the new breed called Miniature Dachshund and just what that would entail and how long the process would be.
“What percentage of Miniature litters are registered each year?” asked Mr. Sprung. I would suspect the majority are standards. Dianne suggested that it was closer to 80 percent Miniature. The pet market was primarily Miniature because of the apartment and life style of today’s average pet buyer. The shows in most areas are at least 50% Miniature. Carol stated that her daughter (Danielle Goodland) had reviewed last years (2003) Dachshund Champions. They are as follows: Total Champions 620, Miniatures 282-almost half.
Emma Jean stated that maybe it would be easier to go through UKC to establish the new breed and then transfer the stud book to AKC.
The AKC staff discussed the issue back and forth and then said that it appeared that the easiest would be to just expand the breed to six varieties. The issue would not be precedent setting in that the Miniature Dachshund is already recognized everywhere else in the world. The Chinese Crested was just denied a separation into varieties, but they are not separate varieties everywhere else in the world.
Dianne asked if we expanded to six varieties, would the Miniature go to the Toy Group?
Mr. Sprung explained that the Miniature Dachshund was NOT a Toy. Dianne then explained that it was rumored that this would happen, and Mr. Liosis stated that it was a good emotional argument, but not the truth. “No, the Miniatures would certainly stay in the hound group Get ready for complaints from the other hound breeds however; the idea of six dachshunds in the group will not please them. Further, it may lead to splitting the group, Sight and Scent hound. . .but that would be something to look at much later.”
Mr. Crowley explained that the different breeds and varieties are placed in the group according to the parent clubs recommendation. The Anatolian Shepherd was thought to be a herding dog, but the parent club said they were primarily a guard dog and wanted them in the Working Group. That is where they were placed.
Emma Jean asked if there was still a thought about one of each breed going to the group. Mr Crowley stated this was brought up a number of years ago as a way to speed up judging and was brought up to the delegate body where it was soundly defeated. There is nothing out there right now and didn’t see anything passing in the future as there are a number of breeds with varieties that it would affect, and how could you decide which poodle from which group would be allowed in group or which Manchester Terrier?
Carol asked about the performance events. Whether the Miniature was a breed or variety, would it still be eligible for all the breed specific performance events...field trials and earthdog? Mr. Liosis said of course.. it is still a dachshund and would continue just as it is today.
AKC staff felt that the issue needed to be brought forward by the DCA board. The request for separate variety consideration needed to come from them with a justification as to why this should happen. Once the AKC board gave their approval to the DCA board, the breed standard could be revised, and with the 2/3 majority approval of the membership, would be enacted by AKC.
Daryl asked if he could count on the AKC staff not interfering with the process once initiated by the supporters of expansion by writing letters to DCA. Mr. Crowley laughingly said he would make sure his staff was reined in on this issue.
Mr. Liosis wanted to know how many of the NMDC members were also members of DCA. Dianne stated that DCAs membership was at about 1100, NMDC at about 500 with 300 of those also DCA members. She further stated that many of the members dropped from DCA after the last defeat. Mr. Liosis stated that often happens, but you can’t do any good when you are not a member. The correct strategy is to get as many people loyal to your cause as members and elected to the board of directors.
The meeting ended amiably with Mr. Crowley conducting the NMDC members on a tour of the office and an explanation of some of the fine art work held within its walls. Truly an impressive art collection. In Mr. Menaker's office (Chairman of the Board), all eyes went to the beautiful oil painting from the late 19th early 20th century of a dachshund.. . with a big white spot on its chest!
The library is also very impressive and is open to all. If you ever need to do any breed specific research, this is the perfect place to go. It is not a lending library, but there are many old, OLD dog books there (many in plastic bags, locked up). On some of the older books, they provide you with a pillow to rest the book on, in order to preserve the binding. They have all the catalogs for nearly every AKC show ever held!
It was indeed a memorable meeting, and all were impressed with the kindness and understanding shown by the AKC staff.
submitted by
Daryl Turner, NMDC 1st Vice President